hmm.. true, but I was hoping by default
with the standard cooling

i mean, when you create the spinner, you had to populate it’s data model somehow. whatever you populated it with is what you will get back with getValue

I’m using a spinner number model

then the object you are getting probably is an Integer

well… I used getModel() and it didn’t work… should I try getValue with it?

actually, SpinnerNumberModel has a getNumber method.

the spinner number model has a getNumber method but I can’t seem to access it

from the docs: getModel() returns the model. getValue just delegates to getModel().getValue()

why not?

k, figured that resizable part, can i hide the tabs in JTabbedPane? with setvisible they just hide, but still take space

it can’t find the method
hmm… shouldn’t the model be what I’m after?

yes, the model is what you are after, the method is in the model. you are creating the model, right? so keep a reference and reed from it

any processor will do that. If you want it right now, go intel. It costs more but they perform slightly better
if you can wait, get an AMD, they should blow intel away with the new generation of procs
that’s what I tried to do =/

it’s a public method, you can always access it.

make sure your reference has the right type, then.

make sure you’re spelling it correctly

hmm… well the spelling’s correct…
this is puzzling
well they made pastebin for a reason =D

it was made so we dont have to get flooded

well… my guess is that you have SpinnerModel model = new SpinnerNumberModel();

also, so we can ignore it

it keeps saying that getNumber() is not defined for JSpinner

http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/08/monkey-boy-dancing-for-zune.html

even though I’m referencing it by calling QuantityS.getModel().getNumber()

well, then don’t try to call it on JSpinner, but ON THE MODEL.

you mean call model.getNumber()?

getModel.getNumber() will not work, because getModel returns a SpinnerModel, and the method is not defined there.

I see…

so, you have to cast to SpinnerNumberModel first

LMAO

or keep a reference to the model on your own, and don’t call getModel. which makes sense if you create the model in your scope anyway

how reliabale is the the register?

hi people

I see… hmm

im looking for a public maven2 repo for my project (limax.tigris.org). can anyone post stuff in the ibiblio repo for instance?

let me give that a try

hm… something else:
if i have two maps, and i want to iterate over their joined key set, what would be the nicest and most efficient way?
what i want in the end is kind of an “outer join” of the two maps.
i can simply dump both sets into a new hashset, but that seems a lot of overhead…. but there’s no way around that, is there?

how are these two maps associated to each other?
their joined keyset?
they share the same keys?
i would iterate the first, store the used keys in a set. and for each key i would map2.get(currentkey)

they typically but not necessarily have keysets that have a large overlap

and then
i would iterate the second map and ignore all keys in the visited keyset

yea, i though of that… it would be a little less overhead than collecting all keys first. but only marginally better.
hm… too bad…

well, that depends if you count RAM or CPU
it will save you more RAM

i want to save cpu, mustly

you will save that too
or… hmm
maybe not
a hash lookup is fast though
binary search is what it is

i’m trying to calculate the scalar product of sparse vectors
hash lookup is not binary search

how large is your dataset?

hash lookup is much faster
the dataset might be quite large (thousands of entries per vector)

a hash map lookup is a binary search over hash values of the instances.

uh? that’s… not how a hashmap works. i have never looks at java’s impl, but i doubt this is correct.

you know what, i think you need to do some benches in order to see what is fastest

yes, probably

you’re pretty smart

check the source. that is more or less what it is.
modification of the truth to fit what i said, but still. pretty close to reality.

afaik it’s more like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HASHTB32.svg

yes

which is O(k) in most cases and O(n) in worst case. while binary search is O(lon(n))

that is excatly what i say

that’s… not binary search.

a binsearch on the inde
x

no. it doesn’t search.
the placement in the field is known directly from the hash value
no need to do a search.
the only tricky bit is to resolve collitsions.

it calculate the hashvalue of the instance and binsearch the index.

huh?
it’s not a binary search on the index
it’s a direct address lookup

right, it’s not.

and then a sequential search on the bucket
with a good hashing algorithm, there is no sequential search on the bucket

if you have enough space to waste, that is

of course, you move the expense into your hashing algorithm

but that runs only once

ehh, i think we are saying the exact same thing here

hemul, not at all…

anyway, this is unrelated to my original question. thanks for letting me bounce it off you guys

hemul, you’re claiming that a hash lookup is the equivalent of a binary search, say what how?

no, not equivalent. i say binsearching is a part of it.

no, it isn’t
binary search is not part of it
it’s direct access + sequential search

so tell me, how does it find the pos of the hashvalue in the index?

duh, array[hashvalue]
effectively

more like array[hashvalue%array.length] or something equivalent.
but yea

ehh

r0bby, you should kiss ass less :p

then all hashmaps would consume INTEGER.MAX*16 bits
if what you say is trye
u

no. that’s why i said array[hashvalue%array.length]

Duesentrieb, yeah, but basically same difference
there’s more to it than just hashvalue % array.length
since it makes some “corrections” for “poor hashing algorithms”
at least hashmap does

the hashvalue is turned into a hashKEY by “collapsing” it into the current array length. the array length is kept at a size ~2x the current size (or somethign like that)

so if it divs, then it would not find the corret position immediatly. it would have to search its way to the correct index

yes, it’s not modulo. but it’s a similar mapping

and that is a binsearch

no. it always finds it directly. always.

hemul, no, *sequential* search
it’s a direct access to the bucket

but there may be more than one value at that position.

then a sequential search of the bucket
if the bucket is size 1, it’s constant time
otherwise it iterates the bucket to find what it needs

well, the bucket is a different story
lets stay with the index
im sure there is some binsearch going on here
but then im not the author of the classpath

no, there isn’t

if it uses binsearch, then it’s not a hashmap. the entire idea of hashing is to avoid exactly that.

it seems very strange to me that it would find the correct position by simply dividing.

why strange?
it’s the idea.

it does not get trough to me. i see problems with floating points and what not

well, it’s usually not a simple modulo, but a little more complex trapdoor mapping. but it’s effectively the same thing
floating points?
huh?
this is all int math.
not floats involved.

1/3 is what?

0

3/1 is what?

3

right
so 0
err
to low numbers

what, are you talking about the modulo now?

i speak of %arr.lenth

yes. modulo. %

i can not get it though my head that hashvalue%arr.length will be the correct position.
through

you know, 5%3=2 and all that

yes

it doesn’t matter if it’s modulo or not.
it’s some function mapping the hashvalue to a range 0…array.length-1.
that’s sufficient

igive up. i trust you. two against one.
i need to write a testcase or something

maybe read up on hash tables on wikipedia

anybody used aio4j?

it’s not a java thing, you know

i know,
that is why i need to implement it my self
write a testcase
so i see it with my own eyes

when was the first release of j2ee put out by sun ?

post 1.3?

re

mele-

Hows it going

ok

hello, i have installed netbeans to programar in java, it give me a file called Main.java , how can i run it in terminal? ubuntu 7.04
uhello, i have installed Netbeans to programar in java, it give me a file called Main.java , how can i run it in terminal? ubuntu 7.04/u

weird
ghey non the less

hello, i have installed netbeans to programar in java, it give me a file called Main.java , how can i run it in terminal? ubuntu 7.04

~tell pibe86 about newbie ide

pibe86, newbies shouldn’t use IDEs. http://weblogs.java.net/blog/editors/archives/2007/02/you_better_get.html and http://weblogs.java.net/blog/gsporar/archive/2007/02/tools_that_do_t.html

you go to your console, you type javac Main.java from your console.
make sure you’re in the directory where Main.java resides; javac compiles, then java Main to run it.
this is why we say don’t use IDEs until you know what you’re doing. you should know how to compile/run from the command-line

Probably a silly question. But is there any point writing something in say JMF, when no one is likely to have it installed?

only if you can persuade them to install it

No utilices Netbeans. Compila desde la consola.

or distribute it with your app

hah, yea. That’s a good point

~coffee whaley
time to get to work

heh, got it right this time

g[r]eek:
i should have started working around 12… but I need to catnap for a bit
*needed

heh, know what you mean. when i should work, and don’t really feel like it, i come procrastinate in ##java, because i don’t feel as bad helping others out as i do loafing about.

this channel murders my short-term productivity

yup, it’s tricky to limit one’s participation in here to 24 hours per day
i’m considering getting a second screen just so that i can keep an eye on irc while i work on the other.

just learn to lurk more

i compromise by reducing the height of whatever window i’m working in so that i can see the most recent lines in my irc window at the bottom.
saves me having to swap windows every so often just to check what i’ve missed

virtual desktops, screen and irssi.

i could probably justify the initial cost of purchasing a second screen based on the amount of time i’d save alt-tabbing
*amount of time i’d save by not having to alt-tab

uh, how do i get rid of the “unchecked invokcation” warning when using Collections.sort?
some aspects of generics keep confusing me…

you just have 1 screen?

i dont think ive seen that warning when sorting…what did you do?

Yeah, and 8 desktops.
at work I have 3

g[r]eek: ive got a 17″ crt

It did get slightly confusing with 4 virtuals on 2 displays though.

nice.

g[r]eek: I like 2 screens – 1 for documentation

g[r]eek: ive had it for like 6 years too…still works fine for what i do

thanks – you’ve just given me reason to get 3 screens alltogether

r = new ArrayListResultEntry(); …. Collections.sort(r);

check out mohadib’s setup. quite groovy

desktopmanager for the Mac is nice btw…

i don’t see anything wrong with that. not do i see a way to make it clearer to the compliler

mohadib you there?
what work do you do that you need so many desktops?

Irc?

hmm?

Development/Systems engineering

yeah, but like, for Nasa or what?

Nah, not at all. Nice startup company.

im working on it….writing some test programs…ill get back to you

cool. good luck with startup

Thank you!

pr3d4t0r, how can i compile from console?

you’re kidding right? didn’t you read a thing r0bby told you?

i wasnt getting that warning whenusing Strings….it might have something to do with your class that youre putting into it

g[r]eek, does anyone?

javac

anyways i’m outa here. goodnight fellas

man javac
g[r]eek: ‘night.

pr3d4t0r, sorry

public static class ResultEntry implements Comparable {
it’s not generic. so it should be ok, imho

~tell pibe86 about documentation proxy.

http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=knuttz_ueba_22

but then… maybe you have this type of warning turned off?

javabot, thanks

No problem, pibe86.

i am new with java

OKi, then let’s do this.

i tried it in eclipse and on my colleges server…im pretty sure the server has no warnings turned off

Get rid of Netbeans. If you don’t know Java, Netbeans is there only to screw with your brain.
Once you’re done with that, start from the very beginning.
The beginning is called “First Cup”, and javabot will give it to you in a moment:
~tell pibe86 about First Cup.

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/

Start with that.

ok,i am goint to read more

As you build your knowledge, we’ll help you address your concerns and questions.
Most important, listen to what people here tell you. En inglés o en español.

so, what software should i use netbeans o jcreater o other?

NOTHING.

i’m using 1.5 with eclipse api hosting 3.2.2, and have “Unchecked generic type operation” set to “Warning”.

sorry

Read the First Cup bit.

ok

You won’t be using Netbeans host or jCreator or anything like that for at least a month.
So pretend that those things don’t exist.

i have the same and im not getting it. i also ran it on the school server with -Xlint and nothing showed

ok
firs of all
read

must be magic pixies, then?

Good plan

yeah id say its gremlins…its just a warning anyway…does the program still work?

sure works, i’m just trying to understand generics better – thsi warning indicates i donÄt quite get it, or the compiler is broken. i can repoduce the error with minimal test code, but *not* using String

x = new ArrayListComparable();

oooh… wait… the Comparable is generic! That’S it!

generics on both sides.

s/the//
huh?

myList = new LinkedListFoo();

that.

yes?…

all you have to do half the time is explain it to someone…then youll figure out for yourself that youre dumb

nevermind

uh, thanks. i guess.

i have this file called mio.java http://pastebin.com/m1e36c9f8

i got an OutOfMemoryError in a prgram once….i explained it to someone and he asked about a complex if statement…i looked at it and saw that i missed a set of parentheses and it worked perfectly then

when i type java compiler mio.java
it creates a file called mio.class
then i type ./mio.java and my concole says permiso denegado
i type chmod 777 mio.java
and the error is still there

uh
pibe86
java mio
..class is the byte code
javabot tell pibe86 about firstcup

pibe86, firstcup is a beginner’s tutorial for getting started with Java available at http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava

r0bby, thanks

you need to ditch netbeans

that was i wondering

mio.java is your sourcecode, mio.class is the compiled bytecode; java mio is how you execute it
(note no .class)
also, classes start with a capital letter)

ROBBY THANKS
i have to go
see you later
i am going to read books about java

it’s rewarding when newbies get it

how would you force a method to not be overridden

@Override
well actually

that annotation says it can be overridden

sleepster declare it abstract, that forces your classes to implement it; _OR_ declare your class abstract

I want it though NOT to be overriden
ever
so I would declare the method final?

~tell sleepster about final

sleepster, final is a Java keyword that denotes that its target cannot change. A final field/variable cannot be assigned more than once, a final method cannot be overridden in a subclass, and a final class cannot be subclassed.

there you go

thanks
making a class final also disallows my methods to be overridden
except, the class could not be subclassed

read that again: a final class cannot be subclassed; a final _METHOD_ cannot be overriden

well if a final class cannot be subclassed
how can any of its methods be overridden?

you can subclass and inherit the functionality but extend, and not override methods
just declare the methods you don’t want overriden final

okie thanks

what is the class if i might ask?
s/class/program/\

oh nothing really
just some test cases
I am writing
it isn’t really a program at all actually
if that makes any sense
how come this room is so dead now?
everyone sleeping?

it’s sunday

yea. no sense in procrastenating on a sunday.

shrug.

it’s sunday night. america’s busy eating/finishing dinner or out having a life

probably the latter

yes, i’m the only one with no life and no brain
hey whaley, i lost my brain, wanna help me look for it?
I got some candy too

erm…. that was actually insulting… my fault

unintended

I purposely set that up

tricked.

how can I change the value of a JSlider without invoking the change listener? I.e. I still want the change listener to listen to

hopefull you are getting something done
i’ve spent the last hour spinning wheels

like what
I’m a bum

… when a user makes a change, but I want to be able to set the slider to default values at certain times without invoking the listener

the swing tutorial help any?

yes, the SWING host tutorial has helped some, but still can’t figure this out

where is the code?

~tell Meshezabeel about pastebin

Meshezabeel, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin

he’s been here for awhile now, if he doesn’t know to use a pastebin by now, it’s hopeless.
did you look at this: (as well as the api): http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/slider.html

basically the only code that is worth mention is: “myJSlider.setValue(10); – I got the changelistener working fine according to the sun tutorials, but want to be able to change it at times in the program with this line without invoking the change listener.

http://www.thedailywtf.com/Images/200707/error’d/diebold.jpg — i really trust these voting machines, btw

whaley you trusted them before?

I only want the changelistener invoked when the user changes the slider, not when I change the value in the program itself.

i didn’t to begin with… that screenshot strengthens my opinion even more

learn how to use events.
one time i turnmed the channels on my tv and came across this one channel, windows error message!

that happened to me once too!

hah

why don’t you want the changelistenr invoked when the value changes? that’s kind of what it’s for

i should have taken a pic

what kind of boob network runs their broadcast through a windows system

here my voting machines are old mechanical ones
local access cable?

the last time i voted, i had some new smancy fancy voting machine… there’s no telling how my vote really got recorded however. and i had no receipt to show for it

nmx, I need to be able to set the slider to mid values at times, so it is not where the user left it the last time it was used on a different object. When I hard code the position of the slider in the code, I just want the slider location to be changed, but not have an event
triggered.

i’d love to be blisfully ignorant and take the leap of faith that my district had a fair election, but i honestly doubt it

i dont get a receipt, push levers, open curtain

that doesn’t answer my question. what’s wrong with having the event listener triggered?

thatt sounds like vegas

it works somewhat

The java docs say that when I use setValue for the jSlider, that the changelisteners are notified. Is there a way to tell the changelistener whether it was a hardcoded value change or if a user changed the slider. The only other way I can think of doing it is to use a global boolean flag,
which is kinda silly.

does it do what you want?

your design is wrong. if you insist upon using it, set a flag or remove the listener and re-add it

hi

yes, it will work with a boolean flag, but I think maybe I am missing something that I should understand better.

matriz = new VectorVectorInteger(); how can i initializate those Integers ?

there is nothing to initialize; you have created an empty vector

rmx and if do setSize() if there a way that i can make it other than null ?
(other value different than null)

tell guspad about autoboxing

guspad, autoboxing is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/autoboxing.html

Integer m = 3;
same as int m = 3;

nmx, I have a number of objects in a jlayered pane, the jslider allows the user to resize objects, so they might resize the 1st object to a value of 2 on the slider, and the second object to a value of 7. If the user clicks back on the 1st object again I wan the user to be able to see that
the slider is on 2 (not 7). However, currently the slider change listener is invoked and it tries to resize the object when it shouldn’t be resized in the first place

why wouldn’t it see that it is already the correct size and thus not make any changes?

nmx, I could do that in my change listener adding code to get the current image size and calculate the new image size and check for equality

either do that, or set a flag. not a global flag, just within the relevant class

whaley, A commenter on /. mentioned that he worked as a contractor for Diebold. Those machines run Windows XP, are programmed in VB and have 2 (known) default passwords into them and the database.

ughhhh

nmx, ok, thanks, just thought there would be a more java-type way than having to program around it

I heard the db was using the jet engine, which is basically access

it’s working exactly as intended. if you want it to be smarter, you need to add the extra logic

whaley, Luckily, my state thinks the old tried and true “fill in the bubble” method. The problem this was to address was the faulty machinery that led to dimpled votes and hanging chads. Seriously, this is too much of a solution (and a bad one at that) for a simple problem. *sigh*

makes me warm and fuzzy inside to know that our nations most important part of the political process depends on MS Access
umakes me warm and fuzzy inside to know that our nations most important part of the political process depends on MS Access/u
and by warm and fuzzy i really mean scared shitless

Or was probably programmed by individuals who picked up VB on their way to the MBA (my father learned VB for his…).
The passwords are: Diebold and 12345678. Yep, security at its finest.

heh
ok, back to work

that’s the same combination as my luggage!

I don’t get why e-voting is such a hard problem

k thanks r0bby and nmx

pfn, money and power

connections and lowest bidders

makes me warm and fuzzy knowing that they rely on MS products which aren’t always the most stable..

notte

lol

anyone worked with javax.print ? i’m trying to print a gif file, but nothing is coming out.

need more fiber

more fiber in your diet

apparently.
i mean, can folks do a sanity check here? I’m generating a gif, then i’m using a print reoutine to open and print it. am i generating the gif wrong?
http://pastebin.stonekeep.com/613
‘badge’ is… a BufferedImage badge = new BufferedImage(1012,637,ZBufferedImage.TYPE_BYTE_GRAY)
er, minus the Z there.

what’s your default printer?

Which ones are TYPE_BYTE_PINK?

the badge printer i’m trying to print to. here at home, it prints okay to my HP. my user is in the field trying to print to a badge printer though
interesting… TYPE_BYTE_GRAY doesn’t make sense. these are 1bpp images i’m making.
maybe should be TYPE_BYTE_BINARY

The developers that puts Donkeys on the login screen?

no, different project.

HEY! that donkey was cute!

yeah. you jackass.

this one is all mine

Hehe

maybe it’s not set as the default printer? anyway, have you tried opening the file it produces with an image host editor?

but am i a) generating the GIF right, and b) submitting it to the printer right? yes, i’m using an intermediary GIF output file, that’s probably not the most elegant way of doing it. but it -should- print to the default printer, right?
yeah, the user says they can see it in windows paint just fine.
but when she hits ‘print’ she gets a 66 page print request.

have they tried to print from paint?

put a donkey!!! !
javabot should use a donkey for its logo!

i could use to skip the goofyness right now. we have 18 hours to make this work, and toprint a 1000 badges. and we’d like tos leep during this.
ui could use to skip the goofyness right now. we have 18 hours to make this work, and toprint a 1000 badges. and we’d like tos leep during this./u

i’ve had weird results trying to print to weird printers from java…i had to set custom paper sizes and whatnot :-p

okay

eeek

what were symptoms? what we’re seeing right now is the job may e going into the queue, but nothing prints.

exactly that

Huh!

the printer kinda drops it
these are zebra label printers that i’m printing to

hee hee
i’m printing to Evolis badge printers
very very similar
so you were going into control panel, printers, setting up printer properties, and fiddling with settings there? does my print function look okay?

creating a page size there, and then also setting a page size in the java web host print properties

um.

i vaguely remember using something like 5×4 even though that wasn’t the correct size…and then changing the printable area for that size :-p
i was not fun

uggh…. man, coding is a slow process

i tried to remove it from my memory

either that or I suck

and the code is at work :-p

you suck

okay.

but rest assured, not more than I

best way, is if you have one of the printers there

~tell r0bby about suck at life

r0bby, You really suck at life, ya know?

I do

that’s a pretty brutal factoid

bring up the print pref dialog where you can change the settings before you print, and then change things till it works ;-P

pulling no punches

nah
there’s another one that’s worse

show me

and sounds wrong if you use it in the wrong context, can’t.
~barbie r0bby

barbier0bby is hard!/barbie

“if you show me your factoid, I’ll show you mine”

^^

AHAHAHA
~r0bby++

r0bby has a karma level of 35, whaley

that was classic.

don’t use it.

unfortnately, i don’t have the printer here.
it’s in pittsburgh.

this for a con?

is there a windows way to say ‘print this file’
yes.
from the command line?

hey – is it possible to have rmi-ssl without client authentication?

the job is being submitted essentually from a servlet.
so i don’t have a dialog or anything.

type filename.txt | lpt1:

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
jeez, does that actually still -work-?

Yup.

?
this is not on the first parallel port.

Or try new FileOutputStream(new File(“lpt1:”));

and no, it doesn’t still work.

Well, use whatever it’s mapped to. prn: may be fine.

‘lpt1:’ is not recognized as an internal..

I’ve done it recently.

i think you mean

Oh, yeah. That
I have a script that prints — it uses lpt1:

interesting. that has wedged my command shell
^Z and ^C don’t do anything.
aha
copy/b filename lptx’
well that won’t work. i’m trying to dump a gif file. you can’t just dump a gif file to the print device like that.
you need to use the print driver.
if it were a postscript output, that might make sense.
but very few printers take a gif file as raw input.

open it in mspaint, use macros to print and close paint

hi

do i always need a truststore on the client side if i use ssl?

i wonder if the gif area i’m printing is too large for the print area.
i’ve had problems with that before.

have them try to print it from mspaint and see what happens :-p

the ‘print test page’ works.
(from the printer setup properties thingy in windows). i’ll try the mspaint thing in a few minutes.
http://saloon.javaranch.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=003843 — this is mighty handy. a way of querying hte print system for it’s attributes.

anyone know of the closest IDE to JCreator for linux? I’ve been dev’ing in command line for like 2 months, and the project is just getting way too big to continue like this. I dont want something as fat as NetBeans, i just want a simple IDE made specifically for Java that color codes and
handles project folders.

IDE
A
IDEA*
or eclipse

eclipse isn’t really a ’simple ide’
maybe jedit

if he wants simple he can use netbeans which runs fine on linux.
I have all of them, IDEA, eclipse and netbeans

if’n i weren’t a cheap bastard, i’d use IDEA

hey MacIver, you about?

kinda

so, we ran the little loop against the print driver, and got this output:
uso, we ran the little loop against the print driver, and got this output:/u
ohhhh
http://pastebin.stonekeep.com/615
there’s… nothing there for the badge printer.
it looks like… “Office Document Image Writer” and “Adobe PDF Writer”
each of them have a badge size entry though
[java] 9163 [Thread-0] INFO SystemBadge – MediaPrintableArea 65: media-printable-area 0.0 0.0 86.021 54.864
that’s the correct size of a badge. 86mm x 54mm
but how do i tell my print routine to use that mediaprintablearea? just make a new one?

it’s been a while, but i recall there is something you can’t make a new one of…in the printerproperties request thingy

a = b = c = new String(“”); // are these all going to be referencing to the same mem location?

yes, and the String(String) constructor is pointless, just use the literal

and if I then change a = “something else”; will all the variables become something else?
Fanook, yeah, but my question isn’t just for strings

no, you’re only changing what a points at

ok, so when do they remain same?
i mean, i’m so confused with deep copying, clone, references
I guess, if Obj a, and Obj b
a = b; // this is a ref right?

are you familiar with c/c++ pointers?

yeah

a reference is just a pointer that you can’t do math with

ok
understood, so everything in java is copied by reference?

no, java only supports pass-by-value

uhh, well ok

~pbv

Java only supports pass by value, not pass by reference (references to objects are passed by value). See http://tinyurl.com/ynr5d3, http://tinyurl.com/ywlv6d (especially http://tinyurl.com/yvppac), and http://tinyurl.com/4wgdh (search for “Passing Reference Data Type Arguments”)

so it passes reference by value?
ok
hmmm so then how do you keep unlinked copies of two objects?
a = b.clone() doesn’t seem to work

clarify that
what exactly are you trying to do?

make a copy of an object

if you’re lucky, the class has a copy constructor just for that. otherwise, you’ll want to use .clone()

it appears that a = b, just creates an alias name a for b, a = b.clone() doesn’t actually make a copy also, it still keeps a reference

HOWEVER, .clone() does a shallow copy by default

right

correct, a=b just creates a new alias to the object b points at
if you need a deep copy, you’ll have to write one yourself, possibly overriding .clone() if that’s what you want

so then what’s the use of shallow copy?

it’s cheap, members of the instance aren’t duplicated, you just get new references to them

well, but I wonder what use do they have? What would I achieve by assigning a new refernce? Why not just give them an alias?

new reference == alias

ok, hmmm
so b=a.clone() returns a reference to the same object as a, changing something in b, still changes in a. So what’s the point of the clone?

no. a.clone returns a shallow copy of a (assuming default implementation). that basically means that if a contains a collection, the collection contents are not duplicated
~shallow copy

Fanook, shallow copy is http://www.churchillobjects.com/c/11091d.html

bad bot! broken link! no cookie!

heh
but you said a shallow copy is a reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_copy

Helo

I’ve already read that
I guess I dont understand the point of a shallow copy alone, i see a point if it’s used in conjunction with laziness

shallow copies are generally pointless, yes. Object’s implementation of .clone() just does a shallow copy because it can’t know any better

ok that definately helps!
hmmm… wonder how C# does it

probably the same way

heh, uhh.. I don’t think so, .clone in C# actually does a deepy copy
bheh, uhh.. I don’t think so, .clone in C# actually does a deepy copy/b

– not a fan of c# (mostly because i have to use it at work)

hate it because you use it?

I have to use Java, a pain, I liked object less worlds

admittidly, a lot of the hate is because we’re forced to still use .net 1.1

eeks, 1.1

why?

which means no typed collections, but a good portion of it is just because visual studio and sourcesafe suck ass

with 3.5 coming out, heh
ahh… a microsoft shop

Progressive can’t find it’s ass with both hands?
actually, they just moved this app from smalltalk to c# about 3-5 years ago
and the design suuuuckkkks

heh

abstract window classes are a PAIN to work with

heh
well I’m sure it’s easier to maintain it in C# than smalltalk
or ..?

they also make bogus claims that they can tell you the prices real customers are getting
which is BS.

heh

because it varies based on certain criteria (ie per person per situation)

i spent the majority of friday afternoon massaging my machine back into working order because their assinine autoupdate service decided it would be a good idea to update my local sql server from 2000 to 2005 WHILE I WAS USING IT

what the fuck…

no, i’m not bitter at all

aren’t there locks?
ie something to ya know PREVENT THIS?

nope. all the devs hate it

you guys _KNOW_ what you’re doing…you should have control.

i wonder if some corporations can beat this, our company has outsourced their internal tech support to HP
ridiculous, to get visual studio 2005 installed, you need to call somebody in HP e-services in some foreign country who route your ticket to the guy sitting a bench across from me

why not India…seems to the popular choice…I call MS tech support…the connection was crap

I’m guessing the e-services are in India

the best part is that it installed VS2005, but only with the sql server modules, no c#. and VS2003 doesn’t work with sqlserv 2005, so even if it hadn’t !$#@ up my sql install, i still couldn’t have done any work

probably.

which is fine, I mean the connection at times is crap, but the people are alright, it’s just that I’d rather go across the hall!

nice.
I would have killed whoever set it up

oh, i’m gonna complain to my manager tomorrow

bring a baseball bat and 9mm pain killer
fucking virtual box
I HATE YOU
oh it’s not booted up yet

that’s that oss vm?

yes
Innotek VirtualBox
it’s actually really good

i think i tried that when it hit digg. wasn’t impressed

except it locks up if you attach a usb device
(at least with windows 2k sp4(
what’d you hate about it?
works better than qemu and vmware wouldn’t install

can’t exactly recall, i think it was stuff with shared folders
this was like 4-5 months ago,

Can a local variable be declared final?

what is the difference between core j2ee patterns and other patterns.. say the service locater patter and factory pattern ?
In particular why is it called “core j2ee pattern” ?

MarkT-: sure it can

okay… what’s the significance of a final local variable?

it can be used in an anonymous class. other than that, no more than any other final var

Ah. Okay.
Can parameters to functions be final?

~tias

Try it and see. You learn much more by experimentation than by asking without having even tried.

that’s fair.
thanks

question, i have a GifEncoder that connects to an outputstream. i have a print routine that takes an inputstream. atm i’m writing to a fileoutputstream, and then re-opening. can i connect the two streams directly?

how can i turn on debuging for everything?

yes, you can use memory (buffer) streams

is it as simple as… OutputStream os = new BufferedOutputStream();
InputStream is = new BufferedInputStream(os);
or do i need to do a byte loop to read/write from them?

it’s not Buffered***Stream, I think it’s ByteArray***Stream

hrm. *nod*

read the docs and try to figure it out

yeah, i am. docs unforunately are very helpful at giving you a ton of information, but not necessarily tellin you what th best way to do something is.

I’m having trouble getting a mouselistener to work on a jlabel, I have been able to do it before, but now can’t seem to. It is likely a simple thing I’m missing. Can someone please look at: http://pastebin.ca/647074 – when the jLabel is clicked, it should
call the upArrowClicked method, but it is not working.

well I gave you some pointers

you did, thanks.
i’m trying to figure out how best to submit a Graphics2D encoded GIF file to javax.print.

did you try System.out.println() debugging?

I tried something similar, I have made an error class that prints out error messages, the method was not called, I redid the program for the pastebin to simplify it and tried changing the text of the jlabel but still it was not called.

do println debugging.

ok

it’s mouseClicked, with a small m
if you used a smart IDE, you would notice
(or never have this problem)

he shouldn’t be using one

duh, ok, thank you, now I feel dumb, I am using netBeans, but have lately been trying to code manually in netbeans rather than getting it to generate the GUIs, guess it didn’t pick that up.
thanks also for the suggestion

I don’t mean generating the GUI automatically, but a good IDE can show you whether a method is an override or not, and warn you if it will never be used

you should code manually
for example: IDEA tells me the methods available to me, and their parameters.

yeah, I’m starting too because it is helping me learn better
too=to

learn gbl and all your gui problems are solved

I used GBL In conjunction with BorderLayout to place my panels

also, I think it’s better to set up all the components before making the frame visible

yeah, borderlayout is useful

yeah, I use GBL

_LAST_ thing you should do is set the frame visible
the _LAST_

aditsu, r0bby, ok point taken
thanks

// set up components // place them // visible

you guys will make a guru out of me yet … well might take a few hundred years

don’t use the word “guru”

gurus don’t exist…just gods
guru takes _YEARS_
I can’t say what i want w/o coming off as a total ass kisser

yup, hence the few hundred

you won’t live that long

don’t expect r0bby to make you a guru (*runs and hides*)

exactly, so I will never become a guru, but nonetheless, I do learn a lot here, so thanks

dont expect much from r0bby apart from cursing like a sailor

or cruising like a sailor?
r0bby’s helped me out and given me advice on more than one occasion

r0bby’s *special*

hm.. is there a way to find out which components are holding up the EDT when I want the app to close? or manually terminate the EDT?
(I don’t want System.exit)

logging, either via println or some logging framework

i don’t believe there is any way to stop swing once it is running

you did set the defaultCloseOperation to EXIT_ON_CLOSE, right?

other than that

thats the only way

the EDT shuts itself down when all components are disposed
no, that’s the point, I don’t want it to exit abruptly

then your event handler needs to call System.exit()

no, that is false

I’m gonna hurt you

~edt

Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on Swing and threads, and note http://java.sun.com/developer/JDCTechTips/2005/tt0727.html#1

what i do this time?

at least, that was not the case in the past, it may have changed

~pastebin

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin

http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/1201

looks like you are right, see here: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/awt/doc-files/AWTThreadIssues.html

1 Fanook r0bby’s
that

check it out, it terminates nicely

oh, that. pfft.

I’ll put a brick in my manpurse next.

so.. I was hoping for SomeSmartClass.giveMeAListOfRemainingComponents()

i would suggest to simply keep track of your open frames
see also Frame.getFrames

I think it’s not frames, but little things that don’t get disposed

little things? like what? everything is contained within a frame
unless you have introduced a deadlock or infinite loop somewhere

could be a Swing timer

well, it’d be your reponsibility to stop it

will all components be disposed when the containing frame is disposed?
oh I guess they will

that has been my experience

Releases all of the native screen resources used by this Window, its subcomponents, and all of its owned children. That is, the resources for these Components will be destroyed, any memory they consume will be returned to the OS, and they will be marked as undisplayable.

[krustofski]: yeah, I was just looking at that now

oh well i’m off to bed. more firmware in C to write tomorrow. looks like my java days are ending

so it’s probably Swing timers then.. I think I saw something like that last time I debugged this problem

you dont seem to keep track of your elements as you go

I keep track of some, but there’s a lot of stuff in there (written by others)

yeah… for dialogs, for example, i have a single point of exit, whether they are ‘canceled’ or the window is closed… in which i free any associated resources that aren’t necessarily components of the frame
that just seems smart in any case.

thanks all, have a good night

javaites!

innndeeed

BOO FUCKIN YA BAYBEEE
we gave up on the GIFs.
i’m generating PDF’s on the fly.
cuz acrobat, being the smarty pants they are, have a command line print option.

hiya… I want to show a directory picker (swing) for a remote server – any clever ideas how to do this?
I thought maybe I could return a File[] (from the remote server) of directories and as someone selects a subdir, ask the server for the next lot of subdirs…

maybe for that using the default file chooser in swing doesn’t make sense? maybe provide a minimal tree like thing as provided on windows, in installers and such?
not sure if it allows for replacing the “backend”, http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/filechooser.html
it should, swing being all mvc, sun being so much in love with pluggable apis, and all that stuff.
from what it looks like there it seems that plugging in a different backend didn’t occur to the designers.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=file+chooser+java+custom&btnG=Search

awesome!

yeha, i’m pretty frippin psyched.

aolbonics
“cuz”

because rendering things onto a pdf doc is a helluva lot more robust than doing it onto a gif.
bbecause rendering things onto a pdf doc is a helluva lot more robust than doing it onto a gif./b

can I have your wallet?

no.

whats the defaut shortcut to generate an iterator in IDEA?

anyone know of a java book going thru a complete application

PKagent-I: what kind of information would it contain ?

complete application development
not just snippet of info on an application
say the book would cover complete messenger application
it would go thru client and server side

Clackwell, hi, thanks for the ideas (sorry, got called into a meeting)

Anyone here good at nueral networks, or know a network/channel I can goto that reguards to them?

Clackwell, this should be fun to implement, the client will be on win or osw, the server on win or osx or linux :/
s/osw/osx/

doesnt java run on em all ?

I think so
erm Imean erm Woflborg..

PKagent-I: well, books are for learning… not for writing a complete complex application like that.

Chase-san, there’s #ai , but it’s quiet, and they record everything you say =X

hello

well hrm

Is there a good way to interface Java and Python?

well i dont want to buy several books to just do one application
like buy a network book, swing book, db book etc

PKagent-I: yeah, you’d actually have to read them too.

~Woflborg++

woflborg has a karma level of 2, g[r]eek

~jython

Sou|cutter, jython is at http://www.jython.org

there, read that link

I need to find a person who knows a bit more about them

Chase-san: Talk to Dyson at SkyNet

SkyNet?
reminds me of the terminator movies
by skynet you mean a irc network I hope

was the scientist character (the black guy) also named Dyson?

i’m pretty sure he’s making a T2 reference Chase-san
yes
Miles Dyson

right

lol
okay
I guess I was right
with the first little joking reference I made

i think the t100 (Arnold) was based off of a “neural net processor” or something…

better know as a quantum computer eh?

the real Arnold is also based off of a “neural net processor” (an organic one, inside the skull)

How about some positronic brains?

thats star trek and well, donno if thats acrtally possible

Chase-san, our brains aren’t quantum, but they’re a neural net.

I wan’t talking about our brains (but I think there is a theory reguarding our brains as quantum computers)

hm, all this talk about brains is making me hungry

g[r]eek: that will let me call python functions from within a java program?

read the link. check out #jython also

hrm

*yawn*

Hola.

Hey
Was at SIGGRAPH today.

Nice?
That’s one of the “smart” conferences

really only long enough to drop my sister off.
She’s suposedly gonna get me a ticket.

thats one letter short of a ymca

You sound like the kid whose brother was in the university.

??

“What degree is your brother getting?” “No degree. He’s in a jar, in one of the labs.”

I have a ticket for the last day.
But my ssiter has the whole week ticket and as I ahve to work I only got one day off to go to it.

Ah

~javadoc Arrays.deepEquals(*)

ojacobson, please see java.util.Arrays.deepEquals(java.lang.Object[], java.lang.Object[]): http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html#deepEquals(java.lang.Object[],%20java.lang.Object[])

Anyhow, looks interesting.

svm_invictvs:

SOmehow she gets a free ticket and she’s not even an ACM member.
She’s not even a programmer.
hm
*anyhow*

Morning

okay,interesting nick change
G’morning

morrrning

It’s midnight here.

I wish it were midnight here.

so she’s hot then?
same here

g[r]eek: my sister?
g[r]eek: I’m told she is.

g[r]eek: I start my new job today. :-/

fun

well if she ain’t an ACM member, and doesn’t even program, i bet she is

g[r]eek: She’s an artist
I’ve been telling my buddy his sister is hot for a while…then again I only know him because I’m friends with her and I do have a mad crush on her.

how will you focus

What kind of job?

hah! got something similar going on here

Fuck knows. Coffee, probably.
Java + ruby programming for a small startup doing (#include buzzword heavy description here. It’s been described as “corporate facebook”)

heh

(It’s not an entirely accurate description, but it conveys the idea)
Cool. What sort?

~tell DRMacIver about buzzword

DRMacIver, buzzword is leveraging synergies on a daily basis via the usage of mutually exclusive paradigms.

damn, didnt know there were games for startup

Oh, you said game.

lol @ leveraging synergies
~javabot++

Sorry.

javabot has a karma level of 98, g[r]eek

DRMacIver, Wii/PS3/Xbox360

linkedin?

On the plus side, the optimisations that occurred to me while lying awake last night seem to have worked. The for loop that was annoying me now runs twice as fast.
Nah.

thank fuck for small blessings

According to what they told me, theyr’e a bunch of programmers who broke away from SCEA.

It isn’t actually Yet Another Social Network. It’s more an intranet tool which draws on some of the ideas (and does some unusual things).
Neat

And on IGN i guess they have released some middleware tools for Xbox360, but haven’t released any titles yet. I’m trying to figure out more about them. If it’s worth going to the interview for…

wait, hang on
“intranet”, “java”… has anyone actually *said* “paradigm” or “object-oriented” yet?

They describe themselves as an “enterprise 2.0″ company.

ow

They are kidding… I think.

oh boy.

that’s conscious irony, right? riiiight?

I’m pretty sure it is.

If I get that job there, I’ll probably be more a C++ programmer anymore, less Java, heh

(Then again, I can’t bitch about social network sites too much)

I’ve noticed that for soem reason C++ programmers and Java programmers tend to hate each other.

(Our Fearless Leader, may he rot from the crotch, was featured on the cover of FastCompany for saying he wanted to make our site into “My F@^&ing Space”

what?

the lawn is better on both sides you see….

true dat

~ojacobson++

ojacobson has a karma level of 11, g[r]eek

rot fromt he crotch
i like that

heh
Herpes!
~herpes

svm_invictvs, I have no idea what herpes is.

he

~leave

damnit
What did I do that time?
I woudlnt’ be surpirsed if somebody made a herpes factoid.
*anyhow*
Corporate facebook? Doesn’t Facebook alreayd have that?
~no javabot
What was this?

If you’re interested, I’ve managed to speed that code up acceptably. I still don’t know why it was slower than the recursive implementation, but I managed to cut the number of branchings inside the for loop down to 1 (plus the loop itself of course) and that seems to have given it a speed
boost.
“corporate facebook” isn’t really that accurate a description. It just conveys the idea.

ah

I can’t find it on the interweb, but there was a print copy of fast company with our head guy on it for exactly that

Does he have pointy hair?

That second one was probably meant for ojacobson?

no, but his neck is kinda red

Did you really think I was gonna add a herpes factoid to the bot?
ah
yeah, it was.
meh
Al Gore’s $100 makeover?

I can’t hear you; I have a banana in my ear.

?
the new javachannel logo is much better than the hearts anf slwoers.
*flowers
bananna
?
What was this code that was faster recursively as opposed to no-recursively?

i liked my wiggles one the best personally

*ywan*

Recursive code is almost always slower than non-recursive, even if you take tail recursion into account, because of stack frames.
Given enough calls, your recursive calls will become slower the more of them that you’ve got.

yeah, but DRMacIver was saying he had an algorithm that performed better when implemented recursively.

the difference only matters for very fast stuff that gets called a lot.. I guess that was the case

Afaik, if you use tail recursion then the stackframes are dropped after each step, so it’s not slower then…

Carnage\: yeah, it just makes it a loop.
Carnage\: no stack push for each call.

Carnage\: That’s what I meant -
Carnage\: It’s late and I had a big dinner; the tail recursion thing was unless, not even

why’d you make javabot leave

Because you were abusing it.

Woflborg, it would be nice to have application specific book

especially if it was a tutorial on exactly how to do the thing you were working on at the itme

PKagent-I: ofcourse it would be nice.
yeah, word!

is there any way during the execution of an application that an application can request the JVM to increase the ammount of ram it uses? (also would be nice to know if it can decrease as well, but at the moment, not warranted)

many of the books dont cover how to put a complete application together

With s/even/unless/, I totally agree

PKagent-I: what books ? Books on application design ?

don’t take this ass-kissing: you’re a genius
wait…it is ass kissing

hm

ass kissing can be nice, depending on the ass.

design and implementation

ok…
aw, I promise I wont’ abuse javabot anymore

bots just get no respect.

does javabot have a gender?

…

sure, its an ‘it’.

ok
bots can have gender

… gender are for sexual reproductive relationships. Robots do not sexually reproduce, therefore, no gender.

sure. And then they can have little bots.

unless the bot has emotional preference

you ever read about generic AI algorithms?
heh

and it get upset if u refer to it as the opposite sex

~u
No U allowed here.

how u going to enforce that svm

meh

thats different. still no sex is involved. and typically a “gender” is a moot point. Its the exchange of a small amount of information that generated a specific desirable algorithm allowing it to “live on” and that preferred trait to continue in existence.

PKagent-I: I won’t, pr3d4t0r will

using u for you is alright by my book

okay…

It seems to be a general theme. When I try to convert tail recursive functions into loops, they seem to slow down. The particular instance is the ‘get’ method on my Trie implementation.

oh.
maybe the VM’s tail recursion optimization is just better than yours?
heh

The VM doesn’t *have* tail recursion optimisation.
I wouldn’t be bothering to turn them into loops if it did.

doesn’t it with the JIT compiling?

No
It’s a major pain in the ass.

Did we establish that and Imissed.

It’s always been the case.

I never thought about it…I tend to avoid recursion..

didnt someone just mention such optimisation ?

pr3d4t0r did

int doStuff(int i) { if (i = 0) return 0; else return doStuff(i – 1); } doStuff(Integer.MAX_VALUE); // boom! StackOverflow!

Maybe the looping is just killing the CPU’s pipeline every time?

Maybe, but I don’t see why the recursion would be any different.

well, wait, that makes no sense.
Yeah, I was about to say

I mean, they’re not usually verbatim translations.
So it’s always possible it’s just programmer error.

perhaps it sees the jump/link differently than the just the jump?
yeah
oh well
time for bedz
nou

But for example, this one was almost verbatim, I just inlined another method call manually at the same time.

is there any way for a program to self regulate how much ram the JVM consumes on the host OS?

Ok. Sleep well.

um…?

afaik you just have the vm args (-Xms and -Xmx)

oh how much RAm

yeah, afaik thats all i have aswell, but, doesnt hurt to ask.

Not in th code itself, I dont’ think. But I think the Runtime class would be a good place to start looking.

buondi’

Isn’t the whole VM contained in libjava.so?
Like if you wnated to load the VM into a C/C++ program…

…
that could be interesting
but… hell no.

hell no?

yeah, thats a he + ll with a no.

heh

or as we used to call in my school days “H – E – Double Hockey stick.”

I know what the hell it meansW
What are you saying “Hell no” to?

if that was a suggestion that i write a C++ application to regulate the JVM to run a program that will loop back information to the starting C++ application to regulate the amount of ram the JVM uses.

that’s one way.
That sounds a little convoluted, though.

would probably be easier and more efficient then you would think.

I’m just speculating here, honestly. I do wonder if there is a way to regulate the Java heap space through JNI or something. The Runtime class doesn’t appear to have much
*shrug*
You could probably get more explicit control over garbage collections and what not.
*anyhow8
*

18,000 $ means 18K $?

good night all

java should make a loop back class that allows java applications to have an interface to the JVM to control more intimate details of the execution of the application/

yes

wow… what prices…

Code it up

that the hell are you looking into buying for 18k?

Dollar signs are suppose to come before the digits.

Are you buying a car or something?

In principle that’s what the MXBean system is for.

bah

It doesn’t seem to have what you want though.

no, checking prices for commercial ESBs…

oh

whats an ESB
* ?

oh well
Enterprise Service Bus

So he’s buying a bus rather than a car?

/rimshot

Tibco charges you 366,000 per CPU per year for premium support, connectors, IDE and management tools…
DRMacIver,

I’ve never understood that phrase.

Rimshot?

Yah

lol
its something you do when your REALLLY drunk with your girlfriend.

you hit the head of the drum and the rim at the same time?

so i’ve herd.

That’s a rim job.

oh..

Ah

my bad

””
Yeah

Weren’t you going to bed?

yeah, thanks for reminding me.

lol

No worries. At the moment no one is more aware than me how important a good night’s sleep is!

hmm… this MXBean stuff looks a little interesting… one should surly have to explore that further.

Woflborg, which IDE do u use?

but thats a lot more involved then i wanted to get.

PKagent-I: any, really.

…

what do u use to do GUI work?

Some people never learn

PKagent-I: did you even read the kick message?

*zap*

what u talkin ’bout foo

PKagent-I: It’s spelled “you”. Please take care with your communication, or nobody here will care to communicate with you.

~tell PKagent-I about Java literacy.

PKagent-I, please review this before you continue: http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=469758086_051b1dd752

riiight… well… someone apparently let the children at the admin controls again. later all.

OKi, peeps. Time to go read some Harry Potter.

amazing how dead the netbeans dev channel is ???

Z z .

Sun came to my university to talk about netbeans. I thought they made some nice progress. They bribed me with pizza.
uSun came to my university to talk about netbeans. I thought they made some nice progress. They bribed me with pizza./u
Their designer seemed to work well.

morning

hey jottinger

progress, sure. Still not really usable however.

I like netbeans 5.5+

in general? or something specific…

jottinger ask amitev about netbeans

in general. I find it a decent editor.
I don’t think it’s my primary, but hey

what’s your primary IDE then?

I like how well it eats RAM

PKagent-I: erm

notepad

PKagent-I: it’s one of the ones people think it might be

jot, eclipse?

I don’t think I’ll say

nano?

pico… not

come on tell, i promise i won’t laugh at you

PKagent-I: it’s not about being laughed at.

jottinger is wise in this; what possible benefit could you derive from knowing which IDE he uses?

Because I want to be exactly like jottinger.

and it could do a lot of harm. It’s not about which one I *use* – I use them all
boy, you ARE a nubtard

Don’t call yourself stupid, me.