hi gnudists

…
&
greetings FSFerGnudmanfulguy!

The GNU Hackers Meeting was celebrated a week ago. A GNU-sheriff with permissions could remove it from the channel topic

just call it an “operator”…at least that’s accurate :p

who cares?

…jesus
XD

does diftiff support jbig2 compression/decompression?

I have never used diftiff

nor me

….use bz2 or gzip for compression/decompresion!
gzip for speed, bz2 for maximum comression smallness!

i need to encode/decode data with the JBIG2 specs

I don’t know JBIG2 at all x.x

libtiff seems to support JBIG, but not JBIG2

In the words of Metalica “And it’s time I disappear”

In which form do I need to publish licenses for flex (FLEX) / yacc(GPL2) if i use code generated by those tools?

SFD site is down! o_0

what is SFD
?

Software Freedom Day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Day

ah

ÿ
oops

Hi

Sso….
Question!
Is OpenTTD partially free software? because it requires proprietary graphical files…

AFAIK they are working on free graphics and sounds.

Yes, but right now…?
I want to use Free Software

The code is free, but data files isn’t. I don’t know how it goes philosphically. In practice it isn’t completely free.

Yeah
but they are working on free graphics and sounds, so I think I will wait for a while for any progress.

You may consider running non-free code wrong, but do you consider viewing non-free graphics wrong. Most images on the web are not free…
….and you probably still use free web browser.

Yeah
well, er, not reallys
firefox is not free

It’s not free because it included non-free talk-back software.

“included”?
what changed?

Sorry, wrong wording
Nothing changed

ah ok
so, i was thinking of doing up two things, one “depending” on the other. some XML file format for packaging, and some program using it
packaging is hard, and it is made even harder with all the profileration of packaging formats out there
and then the program… it will be a frontend to qemu, and i have ideas for it that will make users go in a crazy frenzy.
the only reason i want to use this abstract XML host file format for packaging is because I don’t want to be the packager for my program, and I want to help those packagers

I don’t understand. You want use a package format for your program, but don’t want to be a packager?
Generally it is a good idea to let distros to do the packaging. You can help those best by making your package easy to “install” to a temporary dir e.g. with “make DESTDIR=/tmp/pkg install”.

is there a decent string tokenizer that permits regular expressions in c?
holly farfignugin.. i didn’t realize glb has regex functions… yes!
*glib

re

i need some help using automake to compile a lex/yacc parser, haven’t found any reasonable axplaination elsewhere. How do i control what the name of the defination header should be? and how do i pass extra arguments to the yacc or lex parser?

hi.

with “definition header” you mean config.h?

moral question, not that i will violate the law or anything:

no, the yy.tab.h generated by yacc

ah

if i sell free software, why should i
er
not done

have you readed the yacc/bison manual?
as long as i remember, you can specify the header file name through a command line option

if i sell free software, why should i tell my customers that this is free? again, MORAL question, pls answer in a moral way

yes, but how do i make automake pass that argument?

So that your customers recognise the freedom that using free software gives them, so then they learn to value that freedom and to hang onto it.

pass to…?

the yacc or lex parser
to the ‘executed command’

are you using a custom rule in your Makefile.am in order to launch yacc?
or there is some implicit primary in Automake to handle yacc parsers?

no, i was hoping automake had a better sollution
to realise when the reciever can build yacc/lex and then do it or simply use pregenerated source files

if there is a primary for yacc files in automake, it should be documented in the manual

what are some project management tips?

yes, automake support yacc and lex primaries
AM_YFLAGS
you can put arguments to yacc in the AM_YFLAGS variable

http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Yacc-and-Lex.html

BUILT_SOURCES = parser.h
AM_YFLAGS = -d
bin_PROGRAMS = foo
foo_SOURCES = … parser.y …
yes, that is the section 8.8 of the automake manual

how do i set the AM_YFLAGS?

AM_YFLAGS = -foo -bar ?

P

np

im completely retarded with automake

hello

Hi, I am building a base-system that loads shared libraries using dlopen. The libraries are compiled with -fPIC and -ggdb and linked with -shared. When I debug using gdb and step into the shared library, it do not get any symbols and have no backtrace are locals available. When I type “info
local” I get No symbol table info available. Any suggestions what I am doing wrong here? Thanks!

hello
has anyone happened to need to check that a locale-string such as (es_ES), let’s say I’m not interested in codesets or modifiers, is acutally valid?
by looking at setlocale and /usr/bin/locale source code, it seems one isn’t able to to this, since nor locale.h or localeinfo.h provide of this
any clues?

I have a question that might be slightly OT (it’s about trademarks)

anyone familiar with pcre?

basically our project (a point of sale system) is looking to change its name, one of the suggestions was POSeidon, however there’s two proprietary programs that use that name, one is a UML editor another is a media converter, I think the arbitrary nature of the word and the difference in the
types of programs means it’s alright but I was wondering if anyone more familiar with trademark law knew any more?

problem is that the result of trademark disuptes is hard to predict
and larger companies usually have legal departments who are doing nothing else but looking for someone to sue
even if you are in the right, it’s costly and risky to go to court; so usually free projects just yield immediately
(though if you *do* have the money to fight it out, it’s a nice PR gag… )

antrik, ok, I know the project we forked from had to change it’s name due to a trademark dispute so I’m a little cautious
too bad though, POSeidon was a fairly popular choice

Hey,
I’ve got a question about the GPL and LGPL license, I’ve created a PHP framework that is currently under the GPL 2.0 license, however I am considering moving it to the LGPL 2.1 license. Previously with the GPL license this would mean that anyone who uses my Framework (or parts of it) would also
have to release their code under the GPL 2 license, correct?
but if the libraries and entire framework is under the LGPL license, the code they develop (using my framework/libraries) can be under any license they wish (that is LGPL compatible) – have I got this right?

Yes. Still, if they modify the framework itself, those modifications must be under LGPL.

oh yeah of course, but it is best for me to move it to LGPL?

Depends on what you want. If you want to allow proprietary things to be developed on top of your framework, then LGPL is good.

ok thanks

At my high school, currently the computer lab consists of about 30 Windows computers, plus 8 more in the Library area.
There are some empty desks where computers that had worked no longer work and have thus been removed.
Before this next school year, I’m going to assemble a proposal to put GNU/Linux computers, donated by either myself or the Computer Club at the school (who have computers just sitting around), in those empty desks, so that people will have the option of using non-windows computers if they
want.
I think the only way I’d be able to convince them it’s okay is if I use Ubuntu, though I’m going to try for Debian with only free repos
What’s cool is that people who had never before used Linux might sit down just to see what it’s like and see that it’s not as difficult as they think, and in fact has somewhat better software options.
The only problem I think will be getting them configured for the network the way the sysadmin will want it, since our school is pretty much run on Windows Server 2003.
I’d rather they just have a “student” login that stays always logged in, especially since I’m not sure if secure linux web hosting computers could log into a Windows server as a Windows computer.
Anyway.
Just thought I’d share my plans.

and the Structure Of ACPI
s/n//
err. s/ni/n/
on what channel do they have knowledge of such a beast?
should I stamp an eventual hardware design with a GNU head?
still stuck with the moose I guess lol
AUM SHIVA

make[3]: *** No rule to make target `all’. Stop.
anyone mind helping me with that one?
i added noinst_LIBRARIES in my lib dir
gave it the sources in that dir
and SUBDIRS the rest
and in all of those, i just added more sources and subdirs
anything unusual there?

Try pastebinning your Makefile.am (or relevant portion)

alrighty
http://pastebin.ca/649208
is whats in my lib dir
and heres one for a subdir for it http://pastebin.ca/649211

Does it give the error when trying to build in the subdir?

just dies after trying to make in lib
all the output, if this helps – http://pastebin.ca/649213

OK, I have to admit that I don’t know why.

does it matter if im not using it yet?
or if that library stuff isnt in the “head” Makefile.am?

What looks suspicious to me is using libtreefs_a_SOURCES in a subdirectory. AFAIK you can use it only in the same Makefile.am in which you set noinst_LIBRARIES = libtreefs.a.
No, that shouldn’t matter. If it recurses into a dir, then it tries to build.

hmmm
so all the source files for a lib have to be in one dir?
sounds kinda annoying
no way around that?

is there a way in gdb to print all variable values in the current frame the same way that bt full prints variable values in all frames?

Build a library in each directory, then link them together as the final step into a bigger library.

well thats a giant pain in the ass alright
hmmm

I may remember wrong, but recent automake may support files from subdirs. That may be a bit annoying too: libfoo_a_SOURCES = sub/foo.c sub/bar.c …

nothing else?!

I’m no automake expert, so I may have missed a lot. But I don’t know any better way.
I’m no automake expert, so I may have missed a lot. But I don’t know any better way.

yeah, im curious about CMake now too…

I read that kdelibs built 40% faster with it.

damn

That’s because libtool is a shell script, which tends to be slow to execute.

wouldn’t an interpreted language like perl be much faster if you made some smarter dynamic / alive compilation?
“static” binaries can’t possibly be the optimal way to control your CPU
CPU/Hardware
and why the fuck do my name have to be on every line im my sequence?
some old-school tradition I guess

night

cute so, lol

i asked this before, but still wondering….is it possible to have a (convenience) lib with sources in multiple folders?
(with automake)
still not thrilled about the mini-lib idea…
hate todo this so quickly, but i see new people and im realy curious
i asked this before, but still wondering….is it possible to have a (convenience) lib with sources in multiple folders?
(with automake)

It’s certainly possible to have sources in seperate directories.
but I’m not sure if that’s exactly what you want. Perhaps you can rephrase your question.

i tried making a seperate lib, and during compiling i keep getting “make[3]: *** No rule to make target `all’. Stop.
“
someone one was nice enough to look at it before…only thing they noticed that was odd was that i had sources split up
maybe i should paste it again…
heres the makefile.am for my lib dir – http://pastebin.ca/649378
i have a couple of sources files listed, then SUBDIRS
sane/correct?

It looks plausible.
But I would recommend using the non-recursive approach instead of SUBDIRS

didnt know there was a different option
hmmm
anychance you remember that keyword?
/command

There is no keyword. Just use the full pathnames, replacing “/” with “_” throughout.

dam, thats annoying too…

sed is your friend

…anychance theres a third option

There’s lots of options.

if im going to break out ll the text utils i mid as well skip all the autotools madness lol…
and if it assemble one massive line for me…

You can do that, if you don’t mind waiting 30 minutes to recompile everything whenever you make even a minor change.

hmmm

yo

gotta be another way to get around this

can I use GPL v2 code in a project that’s copyrighted gpl v2 and later?
erm

Like I said. There are dozens of ways.

s/copyrighted/licensed under/

jmd yeah, i heard ya. just not sure what another way is yet
id kinda like to keep doing it like this
pretty easy and handle
but not sure what else is close to that..

A project can’t be licensed GPLv2 AND later. It can only be licensed GPLv2 OR later.

but your answer is no

But the answer to the question I think he meant to ask is yes.

actually, it isn’t

… the result has to be licensed GPL v2.
So why is there a problem?

ok, sorry, it’s licensed under gplv2 or later

“gpl v2 or later” is effectively giving the right to relicense the code under a different, possibly incompatible license
only the copyright holder of such code is allowed to do such a thing

Yes. It gives you that right. But it doesn’t compell you to do so.

yup

If I receive software under “GPL2 or later” then I can opt to choose GPL2. I don’t have to use the “or later” bit.

except that if some of that code was gpl v2 *only*, then you’re creating a license incompatibility
replace “or later” with “or (arbitrary free software license)”, and that illustrates the problem more clearly

Where’s the incompatibility?

maybe it’s more a practical problem than anything, linking against a “gpl v2 only” library would be okay, because there’s no room for confusion
if you say “my entire program is gpl v2 or later” when there’s a source file which is “gpl v2 only”, that could give the wrong idea about how parts of that were licensed

True.

if it’s well-integrated into your codebase, then you’re effectively saying that you can relicense “gpl v2 only” guy’s code without his permission

You would have to make your program v2 only, or say “v2 or later except file x which is v2 only”

correct
if there’s a clean separation between the bits of code, then there’s not much of a problem with that
even if it linked against a “v2 only” library, you’d probably have to point that out, lest someone make a “gpl v3 only” version of your code and link against that same library, not realising there’s a license incompatibility
*shrug*

The way that GNU programs deal with this is to put the bits with the “v2 only” license in a seperate directory, and have a README file there.
See http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#External-Libraries

makes sense

I’m curious about how non-gnu project software is copyrighted by the FSF (2001-2006).
Though gthumb is part of Gnome (a GNU Project), it is not GNU software.
Does FSF take on copyrights for applications without integrating them into GNU?

I don’t know. Ask an FSF staff member.
The status of Gnome is wierd anyway.

johnsu01?

Gnome is a “Gnu project”, but is (in general) not FSF copyrighted, doesn’t follow GNU coding standards, and their website contradicts almost every policy of both GNU and FSF.

some of those are worth contradicting
texinfo, anyone?

do they still produce 680×0 processors?
since I want to web design my own low cost computing kit

sometimes, but rarely

something that’s more open than pc’s

I’m sure they do. but Motorola and “low cost” don’t fit in the same sentence.

i’ve cant find specs to all of the stuffr on my motherboard is a d865 perl but gnu linux does

Is gthumb one of those? I notice it’s not in the maintainers file, but is copyrighted FSF solely.

well i just want to develop a low cost hobbyist platform, and start a bbs network

hm, is it in copyright.list?

thing is i would need a idea for a graphics chip capable of at least 256 colors..

Let me look…

or the info in the directory should be correct

since i believe in 4 years the net as we know it will be dead

it will?

and with all of the people who are hobbyists will start using bbs’s again

The directory doesn’t list it.

and getting into packet radio
and we can go back to the days of qlink but a gnu version of qlink

I don’t see it in the copyright.list file, either.

i want to learn some more electronics skills that way i can design my own computing platform for my own use ..and share the design

hm, we’d have to ask assign@ then.. to check the files
strange that it’s not in copyright.list though. unless it’s part of some larger package with a different name?

and use it mostly for coding my own stuff since i dont like PC land since everything feels ’spoonfed” and true code just isn’t encouraged now days

I don’t see anything about that on the gThumb website.

the reason for the motorola 68000 or 68020 chipset is the architecture and ease of codingi n assembly
if i developed a free open computing platform could I have it GPL’ed?

I agree that 68k is (was) a fine chip. It’s a shame it was so expensive.

since i see that there are those who are working on releasing open hardware platforms

I’ve seen some of these before. One example is cvs.

You can’t GPL hardware.

man at least i could design the first one myself and we could use magazines and use postal mail
why can’t i gpl hardware?

because you can’t copyright hardware.

sorry, some of what?

well i’m wanting to come up with a hardware license that’s open

What do you mean “hardware license”? That doesn’t make sense.

ignore these pedants ;P

Applications with FSF copyright but no current connection with GNU. I don’t remember the name of the other offhand.

you can GPL hardware designs

Wrong. You can copyright a diagram but not the design.

the reason i chose the 680×0 is because i can write 680×0 code blindfolded
the hard part would be designing a graphics chipset

If hardware could be covered by something, it would be covered by a patent, not copyright.

and a audio chipset

In some countries there are such things as “registered designs”

oh, yeah, there are definitely some.

i love the gnu/fsf philosophy but i am at the moment trying to learn the x86 architecture first

I was curious. I was looking at the gthumb copyright, but noticed it wasn’t in the directory. That’s all.

and other architectures sincer i want to become a assembly master

would you ask assign@ about it? I’m curious why it’s not in copyright.list.

Sure.

i’m downloading GNU/Hurd right now for playing with since i want something that is guaranteed free

syllable

linux is becoming too mainstream as a kernel

I tend to agree.

that’s why i loved amigas they weren’t totally mainstream or totally hobbyist like
i want to develop a hobbyist system

and almost anything you do with Linux these days has to be through a loadable module, which means you have to be root, and risk crashing the kernel.

so therefore i’m testing ot different OS’s
is there a 680×0 simulator for GNU Linux or GNU /Hurd
another thing is HURD is guaranteed to NOT have proprietary drivers
what other gnu kernels are there besides hurd?

gpled ones?
syllable is all-gpl

The only official GNU kernel is the Hurd on GNU Mach. However, l4 has been used instead of Mach, and of course Linux is used most commonly. I’ve heard of Debian using the various BSD kernels.

i love the BSD kernel
the linux kernel has become too..big
so we do need alternatives to the linux kernel

One might suggest that OpenBSD’s kernel is the only unencumbered kernel around (i.e. no blobs). However, though OpenBSD’s kernel is probably programmed better, Linux provides the most flexibility, usability, and security options.

the one thing about netBSD is it’s kernel is able to be compiled for the 680×0 processors
PC’s have become overly complicated..i miss the days of writing 680×0 code
the Unix Amiga Emulator is GPL code it says on the site but not many distros include it
is it because of the requirement of a proprietary kickstart rom from a existing amiga?
maybe i could work with the AROS team and see if they’d be interested
since AROS does look neat
actually i think free software has won already

Hurd is encumbered ?

Sorry: excepting the Hurd.

does gnu support those who are stuck on non-free OS’s who use GPL’ed software when possible ?
since using GPL/other free licensed software is a start

I suppose it depends what you mean by “support”.
Many GNU packages certainly run on proprietary OSes

Support in what way? Support their use of free software? Sure, though there is no policy requiring it. It is better to use some free software than none at all, but is best to use nothing but free software.

true
i agre with that
the ONLY reason i have ubuntu installed is because it has the unix amiga emulator in the repositories
how do i create a distribution?

I personally can say I’ve been using free software exclusively since 1999.

i’ve been using free software on mky amiga since day one

Have you tried gNewSense? They’ve done a fantastic job to make it Ubuntu and Debian familiar, as well as a haven for GNU supporters.

gnewsense doesnt come with the UAE

United Arab Emirates?

nope
the unix amiga emulator

Regarding creating a distribution, that’s a bit of a daunting task, especially when you get to the compiler toolkit. You’re best using a build system to automate things.

which actually rocks

Have you tried one of the other distros listed at www.gnu.org/links?

i’ve been looking through hobbyist made OS projects and i’ve seen some interesting ones
i tried musix which works which i use

does gNewSense carry the GNU packages that debian refuses to?

gnewsense messes up my laptoop screen

musix is nice.

when i update
musix and dyne are the ones i had zero trouble withy

I’m not sure which one’s Debian refuses to, but they seem to have a healthy selection.

I was particularly refering to the documentation.

they being gNewSense.

but i want something i can work with until i ca afford a free architecutre or until i build my own 680×0 based computing kit

I would like to try Ututo, but I don’t speak spanish. What I would really like is a Ututo like distro (FS version of Gentoo) since Gentoo is what I use

i’m seriously thinking about buying another Amiga
sionce PC x86 is starting to annoy me

gNewSense appears to include the typical info files from the source distributions.
s/distributions/packages/

hmph… while you guys are up.. what’s a good (real)free(as in freedom) cross-platform networking library to use these days for C++? (preferably not too low level)

how much ritalin do i need to learn x86 code?

rms had asked me to help with UTUTO when they first started, but I couldn’t communicate with them very well. There definately is a communcation barrier.

Yes. It seems very orientated towards latin america.

ya it sucks, because it looks like a distro that could be really awsome.

Blag is an alternative…
but not based on gentoo tho

well i downloaded blag installed it to iso but when i booted it it said i needed a blag cd

How Free is gentoo ?

so musix and dyne are the only ones that worked for me

thats my problem, I have become so in love with Portage that I simply get too frustrated trying to use some other package management system.

I ran it for a bit. It is good, but Gentoo was never my thing.

i like the installation of FreeBSD though

gentoo is better when you have a compiler farm/cluster available

and NetBSD

Gothic[c]: Blag is what I use these days.

me too

one of these days, when I get the time and knowlege, I’m going to make a fork of Gentoo and call it Freetoo

Gentoo is free completely, or enough to be on the GNU links page. I don’t know what the blob status is, though. gNewSense is the only one that seems to have focused on a completely unfettered system.

maybe i could use Free or NetBSD

bah, last time I emailed RMS he had issues with Gentoo (for some unknown reason).

i like NetBSD due to it’s miniature size
I am neutrakl on trusted computing..whenever there’s something like that which pops along there’s always a market for those who will sell alternatives

I’m sure if he said there were “issues” he would have explained what they were (albeir briefly).

If you’re going to use BSD, use Open. At least it’s completely free software. I have 4.0 and 4.1 CDs on my website without any non-free software, (though I haven’t cleared the ports package. Even though it is entirely free, it has the potential to download non-free software if you’re not
careful. I’m still working on this.)

well the conversation wasn’t really about Gentoo, it was about a video interview, for a learning GNU/Linux project and he had issues with using Gentoo as the distribution, but never mentioned why.

rms ran UTUTO-e for a bit. I noticed he suddenly dropped it once gNewSense came around. (I am much more comfortable in gNewSense than in Gentoo.)

i just want a kernel to start with for a 68000 based computing platform i want to design

I don’t see a link to gentoo on the links page. It’s only mentioned in passing …

Last I checked, there was a version of OpenBSD for 68000.

gNewSense seems like a great distribution, but I don’t like apt. Portage is like crack.

UTUTO-e is the Gentoo distro mentioned on the GNU webpage.

interesint
however the kernel doesn’t have to have support for netqwork cards

What’s Tannenbaum doing with Minux these days?

Heh. I don’t mind apt, but being a Red Hat guy (s/Red Hat/Blag/) I never really got into Debian/Ubuntu.

portage is beautiful. but it is hell compiling an entire system on a slower machine

since the platform i’m developing will be sinmilar to the amigas and ataris

Have you looked at http://aros.sourceforge.net/

Red Hat was my first distro (4.2), and when the BSDs wore thin, it is what I returned to in the end.

yes i have
aros is what i’m more tan likely going to use

So far as I’m aware, there’s no fully Free OS that makes a laptop completely functional.

AROS has ALOT of potential
musix made my laptop fully functional

ya, RH was my first disto (6 something) and everytime I installed something I ended up going to source because I couldn’t figure out the silly rpm depends. Later I tried Fedora and could not manage to make anything work.

then again its a old dell p4 1.4 ghz

My laptop is completely functional with gNewSense.

my first OS was Amiga Workbench

prolly simply a lack of knowledge of my part, but when I went to Gentoo.. things ‘just worked’

Including Wireless networking ?

rpm hell has been resolved with up2date/Yum.
my first OS was whatever shipped with the Atari 400.

I will have to give Blag a shot on a laptop I have.

nice sinuhe
i’m going to give blag one morfe chjance

Yes, including Wireless. My own particular card required a kernel rebuild and a free software source package, but it worked. With Blag, I use the same software, but in rpm form.

blag seems to be too politicaql and i hate politics
is it possible to replace grub with grub2 or a boot loader of my own choice?

I have been quite impressed with Blag. They have been quite friendly with new users, open to my suggestions around software packages (though I usually have to build them myself and hand them over), and I can use it with my classes to demonstrate Fedora.

Hmm. I looked very hard, but there was only one laptop that was offered ANYWHERE that I could buy, without being compelled also to buy a copy of Windoze. When I got it, the WiFi didn’t work without a binary blob.

or i want to use the XOSL boot loader

yes, based on there site. One thing I hate about the GNU/Linux community is when we try to out do windows. Personally I think we spend way to much time trying to compete with MS than we do developing our own stuff. Everytime I hear about ‘GNU/Linux on the Desktop’ I want to throw up

GNU+Linux distros try to be LIKE windows

possible? Of course. A good idea? Only if you didn’t need to ask.

that’s why i like MuSiX

amen!

it doesnt try to outdo anything it’s origional

I find that the Thinkpads work the best for me, though I’ve had success with Toshiba in the past.

if we had all the windows fanboi’s converting to *nix, we’d be stuck with that crowd,… no thanks

There’s noone in Australia that will sell a Toshiba without Windows.

I was impressed with musix, but am not that big on KDE. (I have nothing against it: no flame wars intended.)

musix actually had what i wanted to use my laptop for mainly..midi sequencing

that’s because the oem’s get discounts by microsoft to sell their OS with the hardware. If they don’t ship windows they’d lose their discounts.

I know. My toshibas have always been hand me downs. There’s still a XP license sticker on the bottom, but I’ve never run Windows on it.

i have a desktop too which has musix installed i have musix, dyne:bolic, ubuntu and this modification of centos/fedora core
(thats on my desktop and i goping to use the rest of my drive space for a small os like FreeBSD or something like that or NetBSD

Unfortunately, I have as yet to add a link to a hardware distributor that is entirely free. I would love to do so, but in the 4-5 years I’ve been with GNU, I’ve never seen it happen.

I looked at the 2nd hand option, but in fact all the 2nd hand ads I saw also offered windoze.

i hhave only second hand hardware

When I say second hand, I mean I took a used laptop off a friend or family member who bought another.

stuff that’s been donated

I reasoned that the vendor was likely to use the money I paid him to buy a new laptop including win XP, so I’d be just as culpable as if I’d bought it direct.

I’d never buy a laptop that I didn’t know where its been. My current one is my wife’s old laptop that she took through the Iraq war. It has overheating issues, so I’m planning to replace it. Go figure.

I don’t know if it’s still possible to buy a laptop and claim the $100 back if you don’
t use the OS.

I’m not aware of a laptop vendor that sells laptops without an OS. My current server I bought with OpenBSD installed to it, without any non-free software. I was quite pleased.
In theory, but I think those days are gone. Your best bet is to find someone local that sells brandless laptops and see if they’d be willing to sell it to you without an OS.

Desktops and servers without OSes are easy to come by. But laptops are another matter.

At the office, we all go gah gah over the thinkpads.

I looked. There’s only one “brandless” laptop and that’s the one whose WiFi requires a blob.
…. and the most annoying thing is that there’s no way of knowing until you’ve bought the damn thing.
So do thinkpads come without an OS?

Amigas were used in various NASA laboratories to keep track of multiple low orbiting satellites, and were still used up to 2003/04
i want a system i dont care what platform it is that has ALL of the hardware specs

I have no solution regarding buying a laptop with Windows. It’s an old issue. I’ve owned four laptops so far, and every one of them I swiped Windows from it (and in one case, helped a friend remove MacOS9 from a G3).

for develoment of low level code and development of addon hardware

I never install the proprietary software that I get, nor do I open the CDs if they have a license sticker (warning me that breaking the seal means agreeing to the license).

I went to the doctor a couple of months back, and there in the waiting room was a PDP11

I break the disks and toss them where they belong. I’ve tried the reimbursement routine, but never get anywhere.

But some laptops come in sealed bags with such sticker.

It would be nice, though. If the FSF were willing to help me with reimbursements, I’d donate it to them.
I’ve never received a laptop that way.

I noticed that the EULA for Windows XP says “if you don’t agree ….. return it to the place of purchase for a refund … IF APPLICABLE”. I don’t know what “if applicable” means.

Microsoft doesn’t take responsibility for it. That responsibility rests with the OEMs, since they buy the licenses in bulk.
How many Windows licenses are sold to people that never use them? I imagine it is quite large. For instance, H&R Block has a bulk license for their Windows installs, but they buy their hardware from HP with Windows Home. That’s 10-20 licenses per store unused and here in Salt Lake, there’s 54
stores.

config.status: creating Makefile
config.status: error: cannot find input file: Makefile.in
….autotools were ment to be used by people huh?
*werent
is there some magic trick?
gui everyone uses?
theres gotta be a catch here….

is knoppix free?

i doubht
doubt even

autotools are one of the few mystical beasts of GNU that I still have no idea how to tame.

good, i thought i was alone for awhile

they aren’t too bad when you get into it… they grow on you

its about to grow my foot up its ass…

heh

is there away to append files to SOURCES
like code in another dir

Yes. The same as you’d append to any other variable.
use +=

sweet…that might do the trick here
libtreefs_a_SOURCES must be set with `=’ before using `+=’
it recurses backwards!

In general I’d agree that autotools are overdue for a major rewrite (do them in guile), but if you follow the rules, read the fscking manual and be a little patient, then it usually works fine.
bIn general I’d agree that autotools are overdue for a major rewrite (do them in guile), but if you follow the rules, read the fscking manual and be a little patient, then it usually works fine./b

uggg, not even sure howto go about fixing that error
there more than one sub dir
with my luck itll randomly pick one to start with
so ill never get the = right

You’re still using the SUBDIRS thing!

yeah
i reaaaly dont want to keep track of a big list of all my files
a mini local one isnt to bad
still not very “auto”y

For !@#@! sake. Read http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Alternative.html and the paper that’s referenced in the first paragraph, then come back and ask questions.

i’m off to bed!

ugg
so im stuck maintaining that lists huh…

list of what?

all the files in all the subdirs
so i can feed it all of them

You could automatically generate them. But it would be a silly thing to do IMHO.

why silly?

You have to declare all the files you want to compile, the same as (in most programming languages) you have to declare all the variables you intend to use.
and there are good reasons for that.

well it works
so i do have to thank all you guys
but dam…could of made autotools alittle friendlier lol…

The primary purpose of autotools is to make life easier for the person using your package. Not the person developing/maintaining it.

ill say
is there any m4 magic that would let me give the dir name and a bunch of file names
and have it glue them all together?
thatd really neaten this up…

What license does the Free Software Foundation (which sponsors the GNU project) advise?

The GPL. The FSF has declared the LGPL obsolete, and urges libraries to be released under the GPL unless there is a compelling reason to use the LGPL.
http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html
Is this true?

unless there is a compelling reason yes

hello, world,
does putting a GPL on a proprietary irc client script make any sense ?

hi gnudists

*g*

It makes as much sense as putting GPL on software, that runs only on a proprietary operating system. That’s quite common thing to do.

it makes sense
It allows you to port the software

Yes
Java apps used to depend on proprietary runtime, but that’s getting fixed too.

3 sun

that was logical… thank you !
s/logical/obvious/

there are also some Quake3 mods that were GPL’ed. Now that quake3 is free, they can be revived

http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page

hello, when using autoconf, automake and gettext
is AC_SUBST(localedir) implied ?
i’m asking because in Makefile.am, $localedir seems to be undefined

I put -DLOCALEDIR=\”$(localedir)\” to Makefile.am, and that works.

which version of autoconf and automake please ?

2.61 and 1.10
Did you put AM_GNU_GETTEXT in configure.ac?

2.59 and 1.9.5
yes
AM_GNU_GETTEXT([external])

info ‘(gettext)src/Makefile’ that says that you should define localedir in the makefile, but hmm why it works for me.
info ‘(gettext)src/Makefile’ that says that you should define localedir in the makefile, but hmm why it works for me.

maybe it’s the case

Seems to be so
According to NEWS

ok thx
i can’t upgrade autoconf
so i adjusted Makefile.am